*This is an AI generated transcript, and may contain inaccurate transcriptions*

Dr. Ann Gillies (00:13):

Welcome to Truth Talks with Dr. Ann. So we are back today I have with me a friend from Saskatchewan. We actually met when I was speaking on gender affirmation and the dangers of affirming gender care in Saskatchewan last summer. So this is Charlene Nightingale. Welcome, Charlene. Good to have you with us.

Charlene Nightingale (00:37):

Oh, it’s so good to be here. Yeah.

Dr. Ann Gillies (00:40):

We’re going to talk about education today and kind of a little bit of what kind of got you in this fight about what’s going on in the school and for the children. But first, can you give me a little bit of background? Your background and then how you got engaged with this?

Charlene Nightingale (01:03):

Actually, I caught the mama bears and the million person March on Facebook, and we were aware that this event was going on and my husband and I pastor church, and we were encouraging. I personally felt that there were people in the front lines, but not enough from the church. And this is something that we need to be supporting the people and standing there with them because it’s something we strongly feel about, but we can’t just hide. And because there was so much negative feedback online, if you spoke up, people were hesitant to say anything. I tend to be one of those mama bears that just plows in. And so as we started to get involved in that, we actually became aware of some situations that had happened in our local school and was in the district. And I prayed about it. They had a number of speakers at the march, and someone reached out to me and they said, will you speak?

(02:06):

So I asked God, because I told her, I said, if God tells me yes, I’ll go. And so I got a yes. And so I just addressed things from the spiritual realm. But at the same time, I began to do research and recognize what was going on. And I am comfortable speaking. I’m a generation removed, so it’s not quite as emotionally hard for me, although it is devastating. I don’t know how you do this, Anne. I have to pull back and give myself breaks mentally and emotionally sometimes from it. And so from that, we had a meeting, we asked for a meeting with our school board and there was going to be different parents presenting, Hey, this happened to my child. And as I began to research, I put a presentation together, which was probably a God thing because we got there. And again, the parents weren’t able to, they’re working really hard trying to support their families in this unique situation that Canada’s in. And then we had seen a little bit in a community close where there was just a board meeting and people thought there was going to be this presentation. And so they all showed up and it’s uncomfortable. And I had communicated with our superintendent, I said, we do not want to yell at you. We don’t want you to leave.

Dr. Ann Gillies (03:39):

When you said there was a board meeting and a lot of people showed up and you said it was uncomfortable, what was uncomfortable?

Charlene Nightingale (03:48):

The LG BT Q thought that they were having a meeting with parents and so they were going to protest outside the building, which makes it difficult for those that have been nominated for the board members to walk through it. And we’ve seen videos where there’s people yelling outside the building and it’s like they need to feel safe if they’re going to hear us, they need to feel safe. They need to feel not attacked. So we actually said, we’re not advertising this first meeting. We don’t want you to have to walk in through a bunch of people.

Dr. Ann Gillies (04:24):

The parents weren’t feeling safe?

Charlene Nightingale (04:27):

No, the board members, because see, we’ve seen on YouTube videos that they’ll shut their mics off or they’ll get up and leave the board meeting or they called for the police to come. It was somewhere in bc they called for the police to come because parents were protesting outside. So we wanted to avoid that situation. And so we even had very few people that we invited into the meeting that they would listen and feel safe.

Dr. Ann Gillies (04:54):

So you have both sides here, right? You said the L-G-B-T-Q were protesting and then parents are Yeah, so the board members were concerned

Charlene Nightingale (05:04):

And we actually said if someone in the meeting becomes angry or that we would deal with it, we would remove them from the room. And so we did everything we could. So that very first meeting, because my words were strong, the message was very strong and it was very black and white. This is what it is, this is what it’s called. And so we wanted to have an environment where they would feel safe listening. And I think we,

Dr. Ann Gillies (05:35):

Sorry to interrupt. So the parents, you were coming to the school board meeting to discuss things that you had heard and seen were happening in the classroom with the children. So can you just talk about some of those things that you found out? This is just relatively new for you. The million person March was just October, 2023. So you’ve just kind of got into this whole, I’ll

Charlene Nightingale (06:14):

Call deep end

Dr. Ann Gillies (06:17):

About six months ago. So

Charlene Nightingale (06:21):

In preparation for the meeting, actually, they gave us their curriculum guidelines, sexual orientation and gender diversity. And they have a different name for it. They don’t actually use the phrase soji, but I did say we’re going to use that because it’s the clearest and fastest. And so when they sent it to me, they just loaded the gun. It was right there, black and white, and I think they were trying to shut it down, but it just actually solidified everything.

Dr. Ann Gillies (06:55):

So what were reading, what you were reading document. Yeah. And so stands for sexual orientation and gender identity for those who are watching it are not totally aware of that. And this document doesn’t use that it uses. And then what did you say, Jen?

Charlene Nightingale (07:14):

Deepening the discussion.

Dr. Ann Gillies (07:19):

Oh yeah, you meant, but it identifies exactly the same thing. Absolutely. In the education.

Charlene Nightingale (07:27):

And we agreed on that in the meeting.

Dr. Ann Gillies (07:30):

What is the most concerning issue in that document for you and for parents?

Charlene Nightingale (07:40):

For parents that it shuts down the ability to say no, that it shuts down parents’ ability to protect their children. That they cover everything in the anti-bullying. They use anti-bullying as we have to do this because kids are getting bullied. But what’s happening is the kids or the families that are going, I want my child protected from this, or We don’t agree with this, they get bullied

Dr. Ann Gillies (08:11):

Very

Charlene Nightingale (08:11):

Much. And it’s on posters in some of the schools in Saskatchewan. It’s very, very harmful for young white males that they’re awful. And I have three grandsons, so they’re all coming up into this. So that’s where my heart got engaged is because of my grandchildren. And so can I just tell you what has happened since that meeting? We’re

Dr. Ann Gillies (08:42):

Going to, yes. Because that meeting was part and parcel, but you’ve had a lot of interactions. That

Charlene Nightingale (08:48):

Was December. And so what happened there was we found where the communication wasn’t happening and it was awkward and it was hard. And so we’re trying to walk with grace because we have to flip this with the board and with the staff. We can’t fight each other and expect a different outcome. So they recognized that some of the incidents that were happening at schools weren’t actually getting to the superintendent. And in the meeting, the board is just wide-eyed because they weren’t getting from the superintendent to the board. And they want to know they do care. Some of them, some of them are very, very pro. We must take this out of the parents’ hands. They’re not qualified or equipped to raise their own children. And so this was our mandate and we’re like, yeah, no, it’s not. I probably said about 10 times, this is not your purview, this is not your responsibility. And the government has clearly backed us up in that in Saskatchewan, but then we had to walk forward through it. So we recognized that there was communication breakdowns and things weren’t getting communicated. So you’re saying

Dr. Ann Gillies (10:00):

From the superintendent to the trustees?

Charlene Nightingale (10:04):

No, but it also wasn’t getting from the principal to the superintendent.

Dr. Ann Gillies (10:10):

We see

Charlene Nightingale (10:11):

That Ontario too. And you know what? It’s like we can’t fix anything if we don’t know that it’s going on. So we actually went, we skipped over the school because we had the opportunity to meet with the board because of the notwithstanding closet that they’d come that the government had put forward. But we do now have to go in and respectfully speak with the principals, and this is our school district. So from that meeting, they had changed some curriculum. There was one more push we’d like to get over the hump that nothing happens in grade five. Just high school is where it begins because once you open the door to it, we have no control what they’ll want to shove it all in. And it’s still too young.

Dr. Ann Gillies (10:54):

All the sexed.

Charlene Nightingale (10:55):

Yes. And so that was a really good outcome. And then we said we would meet again and we were going to compile as many incidents as we could so that we went in to talk again just last week. And we had one of the board members reached out and he said, I’m trying to help you young lady. And he said, I know I was flattered that he said that, but he said, what can we do? What do you want us to do tomorrow morning? What do you want us to do? That was a very profound question.

(11:34):

It took me off guard. I wasn’t expecting that quickly. I just said, take the pornographic books out of the library, which entailed a little, well, we’re not going to be banning books. That’s not whatever. So we discussed what would qualify, and I think this is a good phrase if parents are going in to speak, because our school district is not all the school districts are functioning from the same thing. We have had a lot of inroads that we’re thankful for. And so maybe we’re at the tip of the arrow, but I just said, if the teacher would not be comfortable over for lunch, reading that book to your children in front of you at your kitchen table in your home, then it should not be read in the classroom.

Dr. Ann Gillies (12:17):

Wow, good for you. That’s such a good statement because that’s exactly, exactly. It’s the nail in the head. And how many teachers could read that in front of the parents? In fact, we’ve seen videos where parents have tried to read portions or show portions of those books to a school board or teachers and well school boards that I’ve mostly seen, and they get shut down, they’re told they can’t show that stuff. And it’s like, but you’re showing this to our children without our permission. Well, good for you, Charlene.

Charlene Nightingale (12:59):

So we went through the process of, well, parents can go into school and if there’s any of these books, bring them to our attention and we’ll remove them. And sometimes you think after you get home. And so I just started thinking we didn’t put them in, we shouldn’t have to do all the work to take them out. And then it got to the place of, we were trying to find out how can we get these books without having again, another battle or anything that was going to show up on the media? Not helpful because they twist things so badly. So as we went in to speak just a few weeks ago, I said, everything’s on the computer. And if we have come to the point now where we are not going to do this in the elementary school, if this isn’t going to be our curriculum, then we don’t need the resources for it in the library.

(13:52):

So I said, the other thing is we could go in and try to find them, but you have it all in the computer. I’m not a library technician, but I know that you can go into the library and type in a subject and it will list or a keyword, and it will tell you what books are in the library that have to do with that. And so that was acknowledged, yes, in fact, we can do this. And so I said we would like a list of those books, and we came to the thing at, if it’s a pornographic book, either in this is grade five and in words or in pictures, we must remove them. And I said, and if we could evaluate the books from the list as parents so that we can say this is unacceptable. And so they’re getting us those. And then the computer system went down.

(14:40):

It’s not like they were making this up, it crashed. So we’ll get them. And he sent me an email and he said, I have someone doing this and I’ll get this to you. So we got a yes so that we didn’t have to go into each school. The other thing there is a little bit of, I’m not exactly sure what the word is, but they kind of fluff the air with stuff. And if you’re not wise and discerning and because it was like, well, the library, the librarians are responsible for what books are in the library. They select and they choose. But when they sent me the curriculum, the Ministry of Education dictates to the librarians, you must have these books. You must order these

Dr. Ann Gillies (15:25):

So

Charlene Nightingale (15:25):

It’s higher. We can’t blame the librarians. No.

Dr. Ann Gillies (15:31):

And this is the pass the buck kind of thing that we’ve seen in the past continually over and over again. And I know in our own school board with some incidences, the superintendent said, well, no, we’re not in charge of that. The principal is in charge of that. And I’m like, really? So when you hear all these things, there’s someone up here that is dictating some of these things. And so you got,

Charlene Nightingale (16:04):

We got root of it, and we’re at the point where we can begin to make changes of what’s in the school. On the other thing, and I spoke with our MLA about this because I said, you brought this legislation forward, but you did not communicate to the parents what you were requiring the schools to do. And they had to address this and come up with a policy. And so someone from another school district reached out to me, they recognized we were going back for a second meeting, and they said, can you find out, because we’ve gone to the principals and to our school district, and we’ve asked for this policy that the government said they must have by December. And they said, you can’t have that. And so our school district said, no, we did. And ours is done and it’s out there and it’s accessible.

(16:48):

We put it out there. Parents have to look for it. It’s not up to us to communicate this. See, again, we have that. So then again, in the letter he said, I misspoke. I thought we had posted that and we haven’t. I will rectify this. But what he said to us is, even if they’re going to do any kind of a sex ed curriculum in the classroom, they have to submit it two weeks ahead of time. And I’m not sure if it’s going down to the principal and then the principal to the superintendent, but he said, we had one come in and we said, absolutely not. You cannot teach that. So again, these are little bricks. They were dismantling things a little brick at a time and we’re very thankful for it. Yeah, it is encouraging. But I did say you do recognize that as parents and as people looking at this, we have to trust that everybody’s going to actually submit the curriculum and that if you say no, that they’re actually going to not teach it and not try to still sneak it in there. The trust is hugely shredded right now, and it will take some time to get it reestablished. Parents never have to think twice that anything would happen to their kids in school from this in the past.

Dr. Ann Gillies (18:02):

And now to get that back to how some level of trust even beginning is huge. And so working

Charlene Nightingale (18:11):

Together. So we’re thankful.

Dr. Ann Gillies (18:13):

Yes.

Charlene Nightingale (18:15):

And then

Dr. Ann Gillies (18:16):

You have some trustees that are really willing to listen and to go, wow. Okay.

Charlene Nightingale (18:27):

And the other thing is, as a province, we are working on replacing school trustees that need to be replaced, I think is the nicest way to say it. And so we’re identifying them and then finding people that will run that will speak because a tipping point. And so we’re addressing that. We have to hit it on every level because it’s at every level.

Dr. Ann Gillies (18:54):

Oh, it certainly is. Well, it’s very interesting how even though you’ve just kind of come on the scene and in the sense of having your eyes wide open to sex ed curriculum in the school, and also you mentioned the whole aggression against white children, which is part of the critical crt. I know. Yeah. My brain is just gone now. What was that critical race theory? Yes. Which is all rooted way back in Marxism. So we have all this stuff happening in our schools that actually has been being funneled, trickled down through a couple generations, but we’ve been slow to identify it. And because parents have lives as well, and just raising your children is huge job, having to monitor and to really almost reprimand teachers and school officials is not what parents have ever had to do. And so this is new ground and they don’t like doing it, who likes doing it? But we’ve come to this conclusion that we just can’t blindly trust anymore. There’s too many people with other kind of, I would say nefarious leanings that have been trickled in and it’s become a river into our schools. And that actually, even though they may think that they’re really trying to protect children, it’s just working the opposite, like you said, with your child, your grandchild being bullied. I mean, when I went to school, well,

Charlene Nightingale (20:56):

He wasn’t bullied. He wasn’t bullied. See, this is where it comes into the curriculum. And it’s hard for parents even if they say it was not sex ed. So we have an eight year olds classroom of eight year olds doing a word search and you can search for a word that you don’t know the meaning of. And this was the situation. And the only one that he said, there was a few that I didn’t remember them, not in their vocabulary, and they shouldn’t be in their vocabulary, but when he came home and said, what does bisexual mean? So the parents are like, oh, well. And so you go through the process. Did one of your friends say that word? Did you hear it on the bus? And then it was like, no, it was in health.

Dr. Ann Gillies (21:42):

This is an 8-year-old.

Charlene Nightingale (21:46):

And so as we extrapolate from that, as parents, nobody in school wants to go, I don’t know what’s going on. So he didn’t ask in the classroom, thankfully. And none of the other kids either said, I don’t know what this word means. So if we extrapolate that, if a child had said, what does bisexual mean? I dunno what this word means. How exactly and in what depth and detail is a teacher going to teach a class of students? So boys and girls together, girls, it’s not comfortable. You can’t leave

Dr. Ann Gillies (22:25):

And they’re eight years old

Charlene Nightingale (22:27):

And they’re eight years old and it means this or it means this, or there’s this that means this. And they’re just like, because you can’t unhear it once you hear it. So then it has slowly began to open up things that they should stay closed and protected from age.

Dr. Ann Gillies (22:47):

If the teacher is introducing words such as bisexual, then it isn’t a leap to think that There are other words, homosexual, lesbian, polyamorous, that are probably not going to teach children at that age that, but queer and all of these other new acronyms that we have that label people and the child, this quickly goes from an 8-year-old in the process of just learning to live life and be a kid and learn history and geography to having to learn all these sexual definitions, which is just pretty horrendous. And it changes the child.

Charlene Nightingale (23:39):

It does changes in their brain. Yeah, it does. We did say to the superintendent, we recognize that it’s coming in under the anti-bullying curriculum, not as sex ed. And I said, because it is causing the potential for this to happen in the classroom and these types of things. And then we’re not being kind to the others that aren’t L-G-B-T-Q-C, that’s now, and I have a grade 12 story for you if I have a minute to share it later. But I just said, can we not just tell kids be kind? People are different. Be kind. That’s right. It shouldn’t be every class, every day shirt, this color shirt that color. Just be kind because they’re not thinking or don’t what,

Dr. Ann Gillies (24:30):

When we talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, which are the new deis is the new buzz race and goes back, we don’t need any of that. If we practice the golden rule and teach that every day, not teach all the differences or magnify differences even that aren’t even there to start with. If we go back to some basics, and that’s all part of kindness, being kind to one another.

Charlene Nightingale (25:06):

So with the parents in speaking up and addressing it, they’ve had a little bit of feedback. Some of it is you’re the only one who called. I mean, that’s just manipulatively condescending. Because if it was a parent that said, my gender queer or whatever, child had to experience this in school, one would’ve been like, it would’ve hit the fan. But if a parent that says, you had a transvestite come in the classroom and my child, this is not okay. And it’s like, oh, you’re the only one who called. So then goes equity. What do you do with that? And they’re concerned that the kids, when they get older, the kids are concerned, but when they’re younger, the parents are like, if I go in and talk to this teacher, are they going to single my child out and are they going to have to pay for something that they didn’t do? How do I protect my child if protecting them makes them more vulnerable? And so parents are, they’re caught in this quagmire of wanting to protect their kids, but fearing that stepping out and saying something will put a target on their kids’ back depending on the teacher.

Dr. Ann Gillies (26:23):

And that brings me to this next consideration of what I’ve been saying for the last several years is that the public school system is unsafe for children. It’s unsafe for parents of children who are not identifying as one of the 120 some now gendered categories, which is absolutely ludicrous. And so I have been saying, because the public school system is so unsafe, it is not the place for your child and to somehow provide public education, not public education, private education, whether it be homeschooling or whether it is church schools that are simply housed in the church, but classical education and those kind of things, and the statistics of the number of parents taking their children out of public education, it’s going through the roof. And not because I’m saying it just because parents are looking at what’s going on and saying, we’re not going to put up with this. I’m not sure where that will all end. I don’t know.

Charlene Nightingale (27:44):

You have a thought because part of my heart goes to the kids or the parents or the families that can’t. So I have a season I feel where it’s like, if we can stop and redress this for those who can’t, either they can’t afford or they don’t even have, they just feel like they can’t. And so there’s no other option for them in their heads, at least than having their children in a public school that we get them safer, undo this. So that’s the first goal. But I believe there’ll be a point where I believe that part of what we’re dealing with isn’t actually education. It’s an attack on God. He’s like, this is family. This is how I made males. This is how I made females. You need to protect children. And I’ve made the male and female and that there’s a little bit of a season here where he’s saying either you fix this or I’m going to shift things. And so my part in that is that at the forefront of this battle for a season, but if God says, yeah, no, I’m done with this institution, can’t be redeemed than

Dr. Ann Gillies (28:57):

People,

Charlene Nightingale (28:59):

Then we have to, because I do believe even within that, as we communicate that some people’s eyes and teachers and people in the system, their eyes are open because they’re not aware exactly what it is, and that it gives them opportunity to shift.

Dr. Ann Gillies (29:13):

Well, that’s their hope. That’s our hope. Yes. And right, there’s the two sides to it for sure. I understand that the whole dilemma, certainly with two parents working and trying to provide and everything going on, and it’s already difficult enough, and we should be able, we’re paying taxes. These are our schools. Ultimately we should be who have the input into it. And yet we haven’t taken that under our own advisement. All these generations. We’ve kind of let it happen in that sense. So now we’re doing some other, trying to backtrack a little, trying to change things. So where do you see yourself moving forward? What are you going to keep doing? What are your plans?

Charlene Nightingale (30:10):

We are going to now just step in and very, not apologetically, but just say, we didn’t mean to overstep our local school. And there’s one we can address. The other one we’re going to have to deal with differently. But to go in and just sit down with the principal and vice principal, like, Hey, we got a letter from the superintendent. And it’s like, yes, we didn’t mean to the meeting with the trustees happened. And so we just want to loop them in now and say, this is where the parents are. And then at some point in time, I can’t be the only voice it, it’s helpful, but it opens the door to this. Nobody else cares about this. Only you, Charlene, we don’t have any parents, which is actually a lie, but it’s like we don’t have any parents speaking to this. So you’re just being a prge. They use that word prudish a lot in the,

Dr. Ann Gillies (31:12):

It’s

Charlene Nightingale (31:12):

Not in the WHO document anyways. It’s not in the curriculum thing, but they are very, very, see the message is split. It’s like we’re accepting of everybody and everybody gets to say what they feel and what they believe and what they think. But if it’s disagreement with L-G-B-T-Q or gender dysphoria, which they call gender identity, then as teachers, you must shut them down. The students must be reprimanded. We do not allow this. And it’s like, so you say, I can agree and that this is what it is, but I, I can only say what I believe if it lines up with what you believe. And so we’re not actually raising good citizens.

Dr. Ann Gillies (32:01):

We’re not

Charlene Nightingale (32:02):

Because we should be able to

Dr. Ann Gillies (32:04):

Critical thinkers,

(32:07):

And that’s where we want to keep. So you’re going to meet with local principals and try and pull this together. I think you’ve done a really, really good job. And there are others who have come alongside you, a few people. And I know there were a lot, I was very amazed at the number of people that showed up when I was speaking out there. That was one of the larger groups I’ve ever had the privilege of speaking to. So that was wonderful. So until this curriculum’s out of the school, is that kind of what you’re thinking, that you’re going to stay in this? Awesome, awesome. That’s what we need to hear. Well, and I want to thank you so much for what you’ve done and for how you have supported both the children and the parents. And your heart is for all people. The teachers too.

(33:02):

Some of them are very caught in this. They don’t want to be teaching these things. So you become a voice then not just you, but all those who are speaking and saying, well, let’s just take another look at all this, the sex ed and the depth of it or the breadth of it, whatever you want to call. And because some of the teachers themselves have been so burdened by the fact that they are mandated to teach these things, and so you give them a voice as well, you start touching their hearts because they’re like, oh, thankfully, somebody’s saying what we’ve been feeling, but we can’t say anything. So that’s, it’s been very courageous of you, Charlene, and I’m so grateful to have you on today.

Charlene Nightingale (33:55):

It was an honor. It’s really a privilege. I appreciate how much you went before. I could not have done this when I read your book. I’m going, she’s been fighting this battle for over a decade, and I didn’t even know who you were. And so what you did was you actually, my presentation for the most part came out of the decades of research and life that you’ve lived for others, so that I could speak. I kind of just reiterated a lot of what you’ve been speaking for years. And so it opened the door. It gave me confidence that there’s scientific background for how damaging this is. And yeah,

Dr. Ann Gillies (34:37):

There’s more coming out all the time, but the battle is intense as well, because when there is research that comes out that supports what we are saying, there’s often the media, the backlash that says, no, that’s not true at all. And we see that. And so we have to keep bringing truth to light. Thank you so much, and we will hopefully get talking again. God bless you. That would be

Charlene Nightingale (35:07):

Great. Appreciate you. Thanks, Anne.

Dr. Ann Gillies (35:14):

Thanks for watching today. I hope that you would consider reaching out to Charlene Nightingale. We’re going to put her email address on here. Make sure that in the subject line you put sex ed or Soji or something, so it doesn’t go into spam, but Charlene and her group are actually putting some parent lists with some of the experiences that the children have had and compiling a file. So it would be very helpful if you are interested, if you are a parent, a grandparent that really wants to know more about what’s happening in Saskatchewan and across Canada, then feel free to reach out to Charlene. And God bless you. Thanks for watching and we’ll talk again soon.

Outro (36:08):

You’ve been listening to Truth Talks with Dr. Rand. Thank you so much for joining us today. You can find Anne’s books blog and sign up for the newsletter by going to restoring the mosaic.ca.